Masherhaus Motion: November 1st, 2011 Meeting

Oh good! I was really worried that somehow it got lost and cashed. Hold on... I need to let my heart resume its beating.

no i checked and i did deposit them as i said i had to "check" to see....Jeff

As I've said before, its not about the state of the room. It was about the use it was getting. It's not Jeff's job to clean up after us.

Regarding the rent; the club financials are here for everyone to see, and they have been for some time. We have paid all of our rent up through October. I left a check (#1020) for September and October shortly after we got the numbers in for Oktoberfest. The bank deposit slip shows that it was cashed out on 10/19. The only month that is not listed on the checking ledger is the month of August, and that's because it came from the cashbox account.

Jeff, if you didn't deposit these, someone else did.

i dont feel the need to defend myself but will post some answers to some of the complaints...i know i have been busy with my house and have not attended meetings since flood...the hauz did get messy...but did i get paid those months? yes but month late{maybe figured didnt want it anymore}....and all the months prior to that i and Dennis were the ONLY ones to ever vacum or clean bath or wipe table or clean the coolers{and nobody ever drank form thos coolers cept members,,i didnt even have a beer unless Dennis made me try one} they get messy from use.. so after not getting paid i did not clean those months.. have to check to see if i even got octobers rent yet... well hope all is going well with everyones brewing and its been so slow here that i have not been able to even order supplies...but now have now ordered over $3000 in brew supplies {even thou its only been a few that have missed it} and will be here by truck monday or so...I cant wait to get brewing agin,,,i am almost out of beer and just need the relaxation of brewing!! jeff

That's a great list of questions. I'll bring a copy of it to the meeting tonight and we can discuss them with everyone. I'm sure there is more than one answer to all of them.

I know the officers have done a thorough job of plotting any issues that might be caused, so we'll be sure to address everything tonight.


... pesky bullet system. We need a WYSIWYG editor. Someone should get on that... oh... right, heh.

To answer one of your questions ... to have all of them answered it would be best to be at the meeting tonight. I feel this meeting is VERY important.

I've tried to at least skim everything in this thread - i've been busy lately so I haven't had a chance to jump in.

I just wanted to take a minute to kinda collect my thoughts and recap what I've gathered so far:
* Opportunity cost of club space
** $50/per meeting that could be used elsewhere
** Even with other fundraisers, renting the club space has an associated opportunity cost
** Do we have a solid plan for what we want to do with that money?
*** Trips, equipment, supplies were mentioned, but is there a plan?
*** Are we expanding club equipment, growing member base, more club beer, trips for members, etc.?
*** Who decides how the money will be spent?

* Club meeting space alternatives - members' homes, etc.
** Meetings would be more brew session, recipe planning for next meeting

* Mess issues
** door/lock/whatever for better separation
*** if it's locked, we know it is our mess and we're responsible

* Current equipment - freezers, couches
** Who's going to store them? I assume they're going to be at someone's house?
** Premium member access to lagerators
*** if temp changes are an issue now, why would it be different if the lagerator was located elsewhere?

* New members, recruitment
** Will the lack of a separate club space affect our perceived openness?
** Are we going to scare people away?
** Would additional functions (fundraisers were suggested) create more opportunities for new blood?

I should be there tonight - is there anything I missed?

[edit]the bulleted list works differently than i was expecting - imagine each additional star is a tab[/edit]

Oh yeah, that was the AMVETS. Before that we meet at the Elks Lodge, but we couldn't bring in beer. Though they did have free popcorn, so that was cool.

I do miss that truck... but it's in a better place now.

same here, i took a class (hit myself afterwords realizing ohw easy it was) then found the forum and picked everyones brains (still do). but back then we met at a place was it the VFW? the forum got me in the club. i still remember randi's awesome green truck!

In all honesty that's how I started in the club. I was on the forum for a little bit & then Dennis was doing a brew & invited club members over. I decided to go over to his house & join in on the brewing. From there I went to the club meetings & really started having fun.

I agree, it is harder to just walk into someones home than it is to a central location. I think we can help with that fear though. We've meet a lot of new brewers at group brews. People seem less afraid when its in a garage rather than a home. I think an increase in general club events would lighten the blow of not having a room. In warmer months we could even hold meetings at parks or do special public brew event days to help recruit.

The other tool that might help some of the new-guy jitters is the Forum. Many of our now very active members started by crawling the forum, PM'ing folks, and chatting, before ever venturing to a meeting. I like to think that it's a easy way to feel out the club before stepping right in.

while I don't attend many meetings, i will say that new member recruitment would likely be negatively affected by not having a centralized , non residential, meeting room. It takes a lot of courage for somebody to just roll into a strangers house for a meeting. The meeting room we currently have is a lot less intimidating and you get the feeling that you aren't invading somebody's private home. I know I likely would not have went to my first meeting if it was at a private residence.

Just something to keep in mind....

I have to agree with basically all of Randi's points here. I also DO NOT approve of others being in the room while we are not. Are they messing with our equipment? Are they sampling out our club brews or whoever's are in the kegerator? I do know that when we emptied the kegerator there was about a 1/2 gallon on the bottom of it that someone had spilled out. Was it Mashers? Was it someone else? We don't know. Randi was kind enough to clean out the mess but it's hard to get after the club or whoever if we don't know who created that mess. If we are the only ones in that room then we know that this is something we can address in a meeting or on our forum.

Also as far as other fund raisers.. they are possible but as Randi said, then are we asking too much of club members? They are also not as easy to organize as just bringing in a homebrew. There is a lot of work that goes into events such as Oktoberfest, or EVEN Hop Luck! Mike & Randi were at that shelter from Very early morning to make sure we got that shelter which was AWESOME!! I just wish we could get more participation. (BTW Thank you to those that did! We had a great time!) So it kind of makes me wonder if we can't get a big turnout for our own Hop Luck, would we have enough turnout to make it worth our while for other fund raisers?

All in all, I think moving out will take a quite a bit of burden off of the club's shoulders and will give us soo many more possibilities that can open up. Don't get me wrong, I do like our "Masherhaus" but I LOVE the new possibilites that can happen in the future with $1200 more in our club's pockets. I hope if the club votes to move that this will bring in more members and also bring all the members closer.

P.S.
Randi.... pesos aren't that bad.... they soon may be worth more than the American dollar!

Other than a few requests, no we haven't talked to Jeff.

The officers figured this was a large enough matter that everyone should be able to speak on it before making a move.

I'm kind of an all or nothing person. I guess I feel like it's only half ours anyways. Which I understand it probably is because the rent we pay on it is very reasonable considering other commercial space in the area. I'll be honest, I don't like not knowing whose in there when we're not. I've had members tell me that they don't want to keep lagers there because they don't know if the freezer is going to be adjusted on them. It's also disruptive to have outside WWNH folks walk through our meetings to use the bathroom in our area. I know it gets used for other things, but that makes it less ours. I don't think we can ask for more without paying more. We did ask to pay less ($80), when we started renting and we were turned down. I would imagine that since space is more limited now than before, the answer would be the same.

I agree we don't pay for Jeff to clean. but i do conceed the point others made, mashers don't smoke in the room, and don't fill it with boxes (this Jeff could control) but if the club leaves trash cans and beers laying around that is our mess.

has the club spoke with him?

maybe scince it is not exclusively our room we could mention that, maybe $50 would be worth the space for the kegerators and computer, and just ask jeff to have his stuff clear out twice a month.

just throwing out ideas.

I'm really glad we're having a lot of talk on this. It's not something we should take lightly.

That said, I'll add my 2 cents (I don't shop with peso's like Jayme). For me it really comes down to cash. When we have 5 to 10 members meeting in a room twice a month for a few hours like we did in October, I have a hard time justifying the rental. I'd be happy to put that cash towards more club brews, which I know a lot of people asked for. We've really not been doing a good job of holding those and I apologize for that. We could do a lot with extra cash. I know we could do more events to make more money to pay for the room, but I think then we start asking too much of our members. I'd much rather throw events for the club like campouts, bbq's, trips, and what not. We could even do more public brews to drive membership if we felt it necessary.

Regarding the rooms condition, I can't say I'm pleased with it all the time, but we don't pay Jeff enough to have him clean up our mess. We can't expect that of him. Problem is, I don't know where the mess comes from. It's the downfall of having an open room. We have made a few small requests, many of which were left by members. We understand that the store's been busy, but it's never been acknowledged.

The other thing I'd like to point out is that when we first voted to rent the room there seemed to be a lot of interest in actually brewing at WWNH. That was a good selling point at the time, but a lot of members have created their own systems at home since then and that need just isn't there.

It's not that the room isn't nice to have, if it were free, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I would like to say that if the proposed motion does pass, I will do my best to always give ample notice of where the meeting locations will be. We plan to roll out a new website within the year that will have a lot more bells and whistles to connect members. It should be a great tool to the members.

i cant argue with any of the points. my question would be to cleanlynes, and doors and such. has anyone actually addressed this with Jeff, has he stated he would not put a door on, or keep it clean? if it has to stay open for others clubs and such can we get a reduced rate. i am concerned no one has actually brought this up to him directly.

i like the club house, but i have to admit it is simply selfish on my part, i like to brew there, and store beer for all in the kegerators. i can understand the money side too. if we go to homes that would be fine, with 3 kids at home mine won't be available however.

i will support the clubs majority vote, i appreciate the real care the officers have put into this.

My thoughts on this are strictly for the club's best interest. I feel that moving the meetings to whoever is avail. to hold meetings is a GREAT idea for the club. Yes, it does to a point make it a little more difficult for new members to feel comfortable..... possibly. Some new members may also feel right at home. Yes we do have some of our own personal touches to the room and such but I feel putting the meetings in our homes would add soo much more to a personal touch to the club. This allows us to become more on a friendship level rather than just a club aquaintance which I myself would love to see more of.

Also for the club's wallet aspect, moving out will give us soo much more funds to do more things together as a club rather than just Oktoberfest & a few club brews. There are soo many possiblities of what we can do with the extra $1200 rather than just have a homebase. Trips, activities, picnics, brew demontrations (not only at just someone's house but maybe even at a shelter & advertise), add more equipment for the premium members, etc. can not only bring us closer, but also be more exciting for current members that we rarely see to join up with us more and also, more members to join into our club for them to learn how to homebrew & enjoy the finer things in life.

Yes there is the possibility for us to do more events to help pay for the homebase but will we get enough volunteers as we do for Oktoberfest? Or as big of a turnout as Oktoberfest? If we do another event we all may as well pay what we contribute towards Ocktoberfest and be a club that costs members & this is what we do not want.

So, for the end of my 2 pesos worth I will be cliche.... "Home is where the heart is", and my heart is in the club along with homebrewing & I feel there are better things to do with our club funds than to have an actual "home". I do thank Jeff a lot for alowing us to be in his shop for the last year & it was a great expirience. I just feel it may be time to try another rout with our funds.

Those are some good suggestions Doug and I can understand your viewpoint of wanting to stay.

I however support the motion to leave the clubhouse. In my mind it doesn't make any sense to stay from an economical viewpoint alone. We could put those funds to much better use and have the ability to be more active as a club. With the extra income we could do a lot more brews and activities and be able to afford the equipment and supplies to do so. The fact that we pay $1200 a year for a room that we use for an average of 4 hours a month isn't worth it in my opinion.

I will also bring up another point that I feel in my OWN personal opinion that our clubhouse feels less like a comfortable meeting room and more and more like a filthy storage room. It was my understanding (and I may be mistaken) that when we voted on the motion of moving to this location is that we would be renting a space and part of that agreement was that it would be maintained and kept clean. The condition of our clubhouse the last couple months have been pretty poor. At the last meeting there were ashtrays and cigarette butts on the table and floor with ashes all over, a stack of boxes that reached to the ceiling and the bathroom was disgusting with no toilet paper or towels.

That being said I think that Jeff is a great guy and a good brewer and he has done a lot for this club that shouldn't be overlooked. He is a valued member that brings a lot of brewing knowledge, experience and great beers to our meetings and I certainly don't want to offend him by my statement and that is not my intent. Everyone realizes the hardships that he has faced this year and I do feel bad for him and his displacement but I feel that we are no longer getting what we're paying for.

I view this motion completely as a business aspect with nothing personal and I hope to always call Jeff a friend, but I beleive this issue is a facter that we should consider when discussing this vote.

It also isn't my intent to single Jeff out and possibly ebarrass him by bringing this up in a public forum, but I feel it is an issue that affects the club as a whole and we should all take it on so it doesn't fall on our officers to continue to deal with it and cause possible hard feelings between them and Jeff. Our officers do a great job making this club what it is and this is one club burden that I feel they shouldn't have to address alone so I put it out to the memmbers that make up our quarum. This forum is a good place for discussion where everyone's voice can be heard and I hope all our members use it to discuss all the pros and cons of this motion as it is probably the most important votes of the year.

I will support whatever decision we make as a club, however if we do decide to stay, this issue should be addressed and cleared up before it does become personal. I hope no matter what the outcome of this there will be no hard feelings between anyone and that everyone will still put forth the same effort and enthusiasm that make this club great.

This issue strikes me as the white elephant in the room that no one really wants to address for fear of hut feelings and affecting friendships. I feel that we are a great group of rational thinking adults and that we can realize this point for what it is and discuss it as a business matter without stepping on anyone's toes.

In summary I feel that the financial matter is the main point to discuss in this motion and I base my opinion mainly on that, but the hygene of our room should be addressed by the club and this is the time to discuss it because if we stay we need to have an understanding and get this matter cleared up.

First I would like to thank our officers of the club and especially Mike and Randi P . for the their work in creating the mashers and keeping the club active and fun.
If there are not any behind the scene issues regarding our club staying at Jeffs business, I think we should stay at the current location and find ways to pay for the monthly rent. It has a comftorable atmosphere . As the clubs continues to grow, it will become harder and harder to host meetings in a personal residence. Saying all this I would support the majority decision and still enjoy myself at a future meeting location.
Now I have a suggestion for a fund raiser to pay for our monthly rent. How about during the Christmas in the Park event held annually in Sertoma Park, provided the park building room is open on a Saturday nite, the club hosts another beer tasting event. "Santa Brew Fest". We could contact the limo services and allow interested limo riders a taste test for a small additional fee as they visit the Christmas in the Park event. . If needed we could sell tickets to meet our fund raising goals.

Every year, our dedicated members work very hard to publicly demonstrate the depth of true craft in homebrewing. All of the positive responses and acknowledgement in the community begin with the time and money invested in a quality batch of home-brewed beer lovingly made by our club members. Beyond that, hours and hours of planning, volunteered time and even club funds are invested to make our Oktoberfest a resounding success in the Bis-Man area.

A person may ask themselves, or other members in the club, "Why? Why do we put our hearts and souls into event?"

The answer is very plain and simple. First, because we love homebrewing and we love our club. For that reason, we want to share our club, and passion of homebrewing, with others. The Oktoberfest makes that possible, because the Muddy River Mashers is a duty-free organization.

With that in mind, let's discuss the matter at hand.

It has always been the goal of the Muddy River Mashers to help its members learn and grow in homebrewing. Sadly, we have not accomplished that goal to the fullest. While we currently have a place to meet (Wheels Wings N Hobbies), we haven't done everything we can to meet the needs of our members. Every month, we pay $100 for the opportunity to use the spare room, known to some as the Masherhaus. Initially, this arrangement was voted on and undertaken by the club to allow for a central meeting location for our club. Setting up at a local home brew supply shop seemed only natural and the advantages seemed worth the cost.

Over a year later, however, it is time to reconsider whether our needs are being met and if our funds (read: "sweat money") can be better utilized. Because we typically hold our larger events in parks and other locations, the meeting area is actually only put to use twice a month. Can we just as easily meet at a member's home and put the "home" back into homebrewing? At this point, we need to ask ourselves if we're getting the most for our money with the current arrangement where our equipment and meetings are held at Wheels Wings N Hobbies.

To clarify the financial severity of our situation, our rental alone equates to $1,200 per year. That's approximately 66% of the take home funds from our Oktoberfest event after costs are paid. All of that cost reduces our opportunities to make more club brews together, obtain more equipment and benefits for our Premium Members, a subscription to the Kit of the Month program, even "field trips" to places like Beaver Creek Brewing in Wibaux, where the club can cover a percentage of travel expenses. Perhaps the most unfortunate thing is that the club does not even have its own homebrew equipment: mash tun, boil kettle, hot liquor tank, etc. How can we serve our existing members, much less our new ones, when we simply aren't left with the necessary funds for equipment and education?

It's simply not worth short-changing our members and our club in the name of convenience.

Therefore, after lengthy discussion amongst the officers, we would like to bring forth a motion. At our next meeting, November 1st at 7pm, we will be voting whether to continue our rental arrangement at Wheels Wings N Hobbies. This will be an opportunity to voice your opinion on the matter, as well as participate in the official vote. If you are an active member who is unable to attend, we will make allowances for you to vote via absentee ballot by contacting muddyrivermashers@gmail.com.

Please bear in mind these final thoughts as we approach our next meeting. The Muddy River Mashers is not a place or a location, nor is it even something as intangible as a belief. The Muddy River Mashers is our members and our members are Muddy River Mashers. We officers, regardless of where we stand on the matter, have been voted in to best serve you, our members and we believe it is necessary to discuss this matter. This does not equate to a permanent move for the Muddy River Mashers, and as the opportunity presents itself, we may find ourselves voting again on the next Masherhaus. Finally, let me add that I, your president, happily open up my home, as long as necessary, for any and all meetings and events. We will also host any and all club equipment as necessary. Though we have other members who have also expressed interesting in hosting, the club will never truly be without a home as long as Randi and I have ours.

The officers invite you to raise any questions, suggestions or concerns you may have in regard to this proposed motion. Feel free to post here or contact any of the officers. Thank you all for your time and Consideration.

Sincerely,
Mike Philleo
President - Muddy River Mashers