Just Moved To Bismarck - Avid Homebrewer

mathwich wrote:

I'm prone to outbursts in a cubicle farm, so I can totally relate.
Don't tone it down - own it

The best thing to do in a cubicle farm? Fart in a nerf ball and just toss toss it up and see where it lands. Not that I have ever done that before....

I'm prone to outbursts in a cubicle farm, so I can totally relate.
Don't tone it down - own it

punk rock with out profanity, is that even legal?

mathwich wrote:

If it didn't include profanity we might suspect that his account was hacked

j/k

He's actually not kidding. I probably swear too much. It's a good stress reliever, though.

There was a study done (I forget who did it) that suggested people who swear live a less stress-filled and happier life. I believe it.

I could probably tone it down a bit, though.

permo wrote:

dkwandt wrote:

so, you aren't a fan huh?

Apprently we are also allowed to use profanity at will across the boards.

If it didn't include profanity we might suspect that his account was hacked

j/k

dkwandt wrote:

so, you aren't a fan huh?

Apprently we are also allowed to use profanity at will across the boards.

so, you aren't a fan huh?

I, on the other hand, have had nothing but crap experiences with Allan at Vintner's. He always treated me like a criminal and my attempts to purchase things from him were nothing other than annoyances.

I asked about the availability of certain ingredients , he said "I don't know." I looked at him. He looked at me. Nothing. "When will you be ordering grains next so I could come in and find out what you can get?" "I don't know." I looked at him. He looked at me. Nothing.

On another occasion. I went in to see if he had some specific equipment. I wandered around his brewing section for a bit trying to take a mental inventory of what he had for future reference (he didn't have the equipment I was looking for). He watched me from across the room like I was going to grab a pound of hops off the shelf (stored warm) and take off.

I was in there trying to buy wine with the wife. Allan's lackey wine girls were "helping" us. I asked a few things noting to them that I brew beer but I didn't know too terribly much about wine because I'd never really drank a large variety of it. "Oh, well, then you wouldn't like these, these are good wines. They're nothing like beer. Here's a chokecherry wine. I don't like it but I'm sure you will." I left.

...and those are just the events I remember vividly...

In my opinion, Allan can eat shit. He's acted like he didn't want my business, treated me like he suspects I'm a criminal, and he and his staff have talked down to me.

He, his staff, and his business can fuck right off.

I'm a big proponent of local business and I'd prefer to keep my money in the community making the community stronger. When Jeff doesn't/can't have/get something I'd like I order from California, Minnesota, and (if I have to) Canada, happily paying the shipping costs, instead of ordering from Allan.

...in case anyone was curious how I feel about Vintner's.

Anyone else can get whatever they'd like from him - I just won't be doing the same. Jeff does a great job with getting things in and having what I want. I can't expect a shop as diverse as his to have everything I could want (nor would I want him to, that would be waaay too much random stock that only I'm interested in laying around getting old).

we support the locals for the most part, but members use all resources. Jeff if a buddy i admit, so if he can match or come close i use him, i order some hops from vintner and a the cara grains, i just try to support the local guys. Allan has always been good to me, i buy a shit load of wine from him, trade beers, and brew wine through him. jeff has been as helpful as he can be willing to share what he knows or his opinions on brewing.

by the way $45 is a kick ass deal! i will have to see if he can get cara munich, and some carafa 2 for me.

dkwandt wrote:

ok, i did the briess 2 row, on the site you gave plus the discount it was still $51 for 50 lbs so i can't see where you get 3o bucks for any grain. shit i am pretty sure jeff would by it for 30 bucks if he could get it at that price. after shipping it was 58+. he sells 2 row for $61 a bag i will give the local guy my money for that price.

Brewmasters is a good buy, about a buck a pound, or just a tad more, to compile recipes with over 150 different kind of grains on hand at all times.....there is something to be said for "painting with a full pallet" so to speak.

FWIW, I orderd a 55# bag of German Pale from Vitners today for $45. Not too bad of a deal. I think the plain old two row would be even cheaper.


I don't want to stir the pot and I look forward to being a member of a brewing community, so if we support WW&H then I will do my best to follow suit !

permo wrote:

Very cool, me and my wife will come to the meeting and I will bring a few bottles of Russian Imperial Stout that has been aging for over a year.

I have had a belgian IPA before that was pretty much an american IPA, with a belgian yeast strain, I like the idea of going all belgian on it...Styrian Golding or EKG , Pilsen Base, some CarVienne, Aromatic and maybe some brewing sugar of some sort......then dry that puppy out. THe only bad thing would be getting the IBU up there with all those low AA hops....it would probably be worth it though.

That sounds great, I look forward to it - and I know Randi adores dark beers, so it'll be great to try your RIS.

Though in my last version of the Belgian IPA, I took more of an American approach with the hop strains than I would have preferred, I think my next one will utilize Styrian Goldings, French Strisselspalt (2.5% AA!) and homegrown Brewer's Gold and Wyeast 1388. But I digress - it's nice to have you on the forum and I look forward to meeting you tomorrow.

Mike Philleo wrote:

permo wrote:

I am still working out the details, including spec-ing out burners and high output exhaust fans, I do 10-15 gallon batches but only do batches that big when I know the beer will be good. If I am doing something experimental or far to high in gravity, I go down to 6 gallons. My father in law also has a tap system and we have 12 corny kegs, so between me and him and all our friends, we burn kegs quick!

I get bored quick too, with your affinity for belgian ales, have you ever done a belgian pale ale? I have done plenty of other belgian beers but just not this style....but after further review it sounds fantastic.

Even though I have a 6 tap system at home, I just don't burn through enough beer - I think I should invite people over more often...My wife usually takes growlers to work and they go over pretty well, so at least we have that outlet.

To answer your question, I haven't done a Belgian pale ale, but I have done a Belgian IPA. I always clarify for folks that it's an IPA in the Belgian sense, not the American sense. It's hoppy for a Belgian beer, floral and though it's only moderately alcoholic by US standards at about 6.5%, it's dry enough that it goes down easily without forsaking a malty backbone. In fact, I do still have some on tap and could bring some to the meeting tomorrow. And while I'm sure you'd prefer to make your own recipe, you're certainly welcome to use mine as a reference if you feel the need.

Very cool, me and my wife will come to the meeting and I will bring a few bottles of Russian Imperial Stout that has been aging for over a year.

I have had a belgian IPA before that was pretty much an american IPA, with a belgian yeast strain, I like the idea of going all belgian on it...Styrian Golding or EKG , Pilsen Base, some CarVienne, Aromatic and maybe some brewing sugar of some sort......then dry that puppy out. THe only bad thing would be getting the IBU up there with all those low AA hops....it would probably be worth it though.

permo wrote:

I am still working out the details, including spec-ing out burners and high output exhaust fans, I do 10-15 gallon batches but only do batches that big when I know the beer will be good. If I am doing something experimental or far to high in gravity, I go down to 6 gallons. My father in law also has a tap system and we have 12 corny kegs, so between me and him and all our friends, we burn kegs quick!

I get bored quick too, with your affinity for belgian ales, have you ever done a belgian pale ale? I have done plenty of other belgian beers but just not this style....but after further review it sounds fantastic.

Even though I have a 6 tap system at home, I just don't burn through enough beer - I think I should invite people over more often...My wife usually takes growlers to work and they go over pretty well, so at least we have that outlet.

To answer your question, I haven't done a Belgian pale ale, but I have done a Belgian IPA. I always clarify for folks that it's an IPA in the Belgian sense, not the American sense. It's hoppy for a Belgian beer, floral and though it's only moderately alcoholic by US standards at about 6.5%, it's dry enough that it goes down easily without forsaking a malty backbone. In fact, I do still have some on tap and could bring some to the meeting tomorrow. And while I'm sure you'd prefer to make your own recipe, you're certainly welcome to use mine as a reference if you feel the need.

Mike Philleo wrote:

permo wrote:

Thats the yeast! I don't get the whole horseblanket thing....but to each his own.

I am going to have to try that strain out...........I get that sort of attenuation out of the Chimay strain that I bottle harvested and keep on hand now. I had it take a tripel from 1.080 to 1.006, but it took 3 weeks and I krept it up to 80 or so after pitching and propagating at 65. THe beer was delicious.

Your brew system is much more polished than mine, I am trying to find a good deal on a 20 gallon + conical fermenter. I am finishing my basement and am going to put a brew room in .

Though I'm not usually crazy about tripels, yours sounds like it would be dry enough for me, not to mention that I do enjoy Chimay yeasts. Also, I look forward to seeing your setup when it's done, if you want to show it off. My set up does what I need it to, but I spent a fortune on it. It's easy to make something nice if you throw money at it, it's more challenging to make something nice on a budget. Against my better judgment, I recently acquired a Chill-Wizard and am curious as to how well that'll work out.

I have to give you credit for doing larger batches (10+ gal). I can't do that because I have beer ADD and grow bored of even my 5 gallon batches before they're done. It's usually back to the drawing board and into the fermenter with something else before I've even emptied one of my 5ers.

I am still working out the details, including spec-ing out burners and high output exhaust fans, I do 10-15 gallon batches but only do batches that big when I know the beer will be good. If I am doing something experimental or far to high in gravity, I go down to 6 gallons. My father in law also has a tap system and we have 12 corny kegs, so between me and him and all our friends, we burn kegs quick!

I get bored quick too, with your affinity for belgian ales, have you ever done a belgian pale ale? I have done plenty of other belgian beers but just not this style....but after further review it sounds fantastic.

permo wrote:

Thats the yeast! I don't get the whole horseblanket thing....but to each his own.

I am going to have to try that strain out...........I get that sort of attenuation out of the Chimay strain that I bottle harvested and keep on hand now. I had it take a tripel from 1.080 to 1.006, but it took 3 weeks and I krept it up to 80 or so after pitching and propagating at 65. THe beer was delicious.

Your brew system is much more polished than mine, I am trying to find a good deal on a 20 gallon + conical fermenter. I am finishing my basement and am going to put a brew room in .

Though I'm not usually crazy about tripels, yours sounds like it would be dry enough for me, not to mention that I do enjoy Chimay yeasts. Also, I look forward to seeing your setup when it's done, if you want to show it off. My set up does what I need it to, but I spent a fortune on it. It's easy to make something nice if you throw money at it, it's more challenging to make something nice on a budget. Against my better judgment, I recently acquired a Chill-Wizard and am curious as to how well that'll work out.

I have to give you credit for doing larger batches (10+ gal). I can't do that because I have beer ADD and grow bored of even my 5 gallon batches before they're done. It's usually back to the drawing board and into the fermenter with something else before I've even emptied one of my 5ers.

Mike Philleo wrote:

permo wrote:

I have never been able to get Sorachi Ace from hopsdirect, I am little upset about the Amarillo shortage.

What yeast strain do you use for your saison? I have heard wyeast makes a killer strain but I have not used it.

I understand about the freezer, I have a side by side in my brew room , the freezer is for hops and the fridge gets the two kegs and about 40 jars of washed yeast...

We found Sorachi Ace at hopsdirect several months ago, but I don't think it lasted long. According to the site, they won't have any Sorachi Ace until the harvest this fall. My understanding is that only one farm in the U.S. is licensed to grow it, so supplies are limited.

Anyway, I primarily use 3711, French Saison yeast. That stuff is a monster. It'll attenuate the wort as low as 1.002 in 7-10 days and is reliable and consistent like an old Toyota. It finishes dry and provides a citric tartness laced with a complementary phenolic note. Very nice yeast. You just won't get barnyard funk or horseblanket character that some desire in a saison. I should know - as an experiment, I edged it up to 92 degrees with a thermowell and all it did was get earthy and phenolic.

Thats the yeast! I don't get the whole horseblanket thing....but to each his own.

I am going to have to try that strain out...........I get that sort of attenuation out of the Chimay strain that I bottle harvested and keep on hand now. I had it take a tripel from 1.080 to 1.006, but it took 3 weeks and I krept it up to 80 or so after pitching and propagating at 65. THe beer was delicious.

Your brew system is much more polished than mine, I am trying to find a good deal on a 20 gallon + conical fermenter. I am finishing my basement and am going to put a brew room in .

permo wrote:

I have never been able to get Sorachi Ace from hopsdirect, I am little upset about the Amarillo shortage.

What yeast strain do you use for your saison? I have heard wyeast makes a killer strain but I have not used it.

I understand about the freezer, I have a side by side in my brew room , the freezer is for hops and the fridge gets the two kegs and about 40 jars of washed yeast...

We found Sorachi Ace at hopsdirect several months ago, but I don't think it lasted long. According to the site, they won't have any Sorachi Ace until the harvest this fall. My understanding is that only one farm in the U.S. is licensed to grow it, so supplies are limited.

Anyway, I primarily use 3711, French Saison yeast. That stuff is a monster. It'll attenuate the wort as low as 1.002 in 7-10 days and is reliable and consistent like an old Toyota. It finishes dry and provides a citric tartness laced with a complementary phenolic note. Very nice yeast. You just won't get barnyard funk or horseblanket character that some desire in a saison. I should know - as an experiment, I edged it up to 92 degrees with a thermowell and all it did was get earthy and phenolic.

Mike Philleo wrote:

randi philleo wrote:

The 'pear and apple' is what sold me too, besides that the price was great!

I think those Calypso hops are going right into my next Saison after I make one with Sorachi Ace.

I have never been able to get Sorachi Ace from hopsdirect, I am little upset about the Amarillo shortage.

What yeast strain do you use for your saison? I have heard wyeast makes a killer strain but I have not used it.

I understand about the freezer, I have a side by side in my brew room , the freezer is for hops and the fridge gets the two kegs and about 40 jars of washed yeast...

randi philleo wrote:

The 'pear and apple' is what sold me too, besides that the price was great!

I think those Calypso hops are going right into my next Saison after I make one with Sorachi Ace.

I have no willpower when it come's to brew ingredients... which would probably explain why I'm purchasing a hop specific freezer tonight, LOL! Bisman is bad.

The 'pear and apple' is what sold me too, besides that the price was great!

randi philleo wrote:

I usually buy a several ounces at a time from Jeff. If we're itching to order strange stuff, we go through Puterbaugh Farms (aka HopsDirect.com) if we want a lot of them. Just ordered some Vangaurd and Calypso today.

Let me know how the calypso works out! It took every ounce of my willpower not to buy a pound. Pear and Apple aromas and flavors? ! Talk about a hop that could make an awesome belgian tripel or something of that nature. It may go along with WLP500 to accentuate the plum/fruit of that strain.

I usually buy a several ounces at a time from Jeff. If we're itching to order strange stuff, we go through Puterbaugh Farms (aka HopsDirect.com) if we want a lot of them. Just ordered some Vangaurd and Calypso today.

Jeff gets good prices on hops as well. remember you get a discount for buying a pound at a time.

but he doesn't have all of the varieties. challanger for instance. but he can get a lot of them. leaf or pellet, i have not seen any plug hops yet.

Mike Philleo wrote:

permo wrote:

Mike Philleo wrote:

Welcome back to Bismarck and welcome to the Mashers! I hope we get a chance to meet you at the meeting tomorrow.

As far as grain and supplies, I recall once trying to go through Allan for base malts before Jeff came to town. I know his cost is pretty cheap since I used to help him order. Anyway, I asked if he'd be willing to let me order a sack of 2 row with him and he said he would charge me something like $0.75 to $0.90 per lb. which would've defeated the purpose, so I passed. Typically, I'll order from Jeff when I need something, though I think he charges a nominal amount for the extra weight in shipping. The only time I don't is when I drive through the cities on my way to visiting family in Wisconsin. Randi and I stopped at Midwest this last weekend and grabbed something ridiculous like 200 lbs of grain while we were in the neighborhood...couldn't resist!

I actually went as far as to contact Cargill Malting Facility outside of Spiritwood....the guy I talked to said I would need to purchase a pallet, which is about 1000 pounds of grain (Maybe more?) but I could buy directly from them and even pick it up myself. If I could get enough folks together sometime, I would imagine the savings would be enormous.

I may have to stop by tomorow and say hi...if not tomorow the next time then.

I think a group buy would be a great idea, at least in terms of condensing shipping costs. Previously, we did a hop buy in the month of August during harvest and will sometimes order rhizomes together for the spring planting season.

Nice! I think this is going to be great. I have to come meet everybody. I just got 7 pounds of whole cone hops in so I am going to have a good time with those!

Where do you guys order hops from? I usually do hopsdirect but I ordered these from somewhere small farm in Oregon. I forget the name, but they were in the 10 dollar a pound range shipped, which isn't so bad.

permo wrote:

Mike Philleo wrote:

Welcome back to Bismarck and welcome to the Mashers! I hope we get a chance to meet you at the meeting tomorrow.

As far as grain and supplies, I recall once trying to go through Allan for base malts before Jeff came to town. I know his cost is pretty cheap since I used to help him order. Anyway, I asked if he'd be willing to let me order a sack of 2 row with him and he said he would charge me something like $0.75 to $0.90 per lb. which would've defeated the purpose, so I passed. Typically, I'll order from Jeff when I need something, though I think he charges a nominal amount for the extra weight in shipping. The only time I don't is when I drive through the cities on my way to visiting family in Wisconsin. Randi and I stopped at Midwest this last weekend and grabbed something ridiculous like 200 lbs of grain while we were in the neighborhood...couldn't resist!

I actually went as far as to contact Cargill Malting Facility outside of Spiritwood....the guy I talked to said I would need to purchase a pallet, which is about 1000 pounds of grain (Maybe more?) but I could buy directly from them and even pick it up myself. If I could get enough folks together sometime, I would imagine the savings would be enormous.

I may have to stop by tomorow and say hi...if not tomorow the next time then.

I think a group buy would be a great idea, at least in terms of condensing shipping costs. Previously, we did a hop buy in the month of August during harvest and will sometimes order rhizomes together for the spring planting season.

ok, i did the briess 2 row, on the site you gave plus the discount it was still $51 for 50 lbs so i can't see where you get 3o bucks for any grain. shit i am pretty sure jeff would by it for 30 bucks if he could get it at that price. after shipping it was 58+. he sells 2 row for $61 a bag i will give the local guy my money for that price.

Mike Philleo wrote:

Welcome back to Bismarck and welcome to the Mashers! I hope we get a chance to meet you at the meeting tomorrow.

As far as grain and supplies, I recall once trying to go through Allan for base malts before Jeff came to town. I know his cost is pretty cheap since I used to help him order. Anyway, I asked if he'd be willing to let me order a sack of 2 row with him and he said he would charge me something like $0.75 to $0.90 per lb. which would've defeated the purpose, so I passed. Typically, I'll order from Jeff when I need something, though I think he charges a nominal amount for the extra weight in shipping. The only time I don't is when I drive through the cities on my way to visiting family in Wisconsin. Randi and I stopped at Midwest this last weekend and grabbed something ridiculous like 200 lbs of grain while we were in the neighborhood...couldn't resist!

I actually went as far as to contact Cargill Malting Facility outside of Spiritwood....the guy I talked to said I would need to purchase a pallet, which is about 1000 pounds of grain (Maybe more?) but I could buy directly from them and even pick it up myself. If I could get enough folks together sometime, I would imagine the savings would be enormous.

I may have to stop by tomorow and say hi...if not tomorow the next time then.

Welcome back to Bismarck and welcome to the Mashers! I hope we get a chance to meet you at the meeting tomorrow.

As far as grain and supplies, I recall once trying to go through Allan for base malts before Jeff came to town. I know his cost is pretty cheap since I used to help him order. Anyway, I asked if he'd be willing to let me order a sack of 2 row with him and he said he would charge me something like $0.75 to $0.90 per lb. which would've defeated the purpose, so I passed. Typically, I'll order from Jeff when I need something, though I think he charges a nominal amount for the extra weight in shipping. The only time I don't is when I drive through the cities on my way to visiting family in Wisconsin. Randi and I stopped at Midwest this last weekend and grabbed something ridiculous like 200 lbs of grain while we were in the neighborhood...couldn't resist!

dkwandt wrote:

hard to beat cost. jeff typically is less or equal to midwest supplies, but you don't pay shiping.

Not sure how allan can afford to sell at cost, but he if that is what he wants to do see what cost is.

He said on the bags of grain he is only interested in recouping his cost and quoted me prices of "seventy five cents to a dollar" a pound depending on the type of grain. I am assuming something like a briesse two row is on the low end, and MO or GP is on the high end, but I am unsure.

I will buy the grain wherever, it doesn't matter to me. I will stop by this afternoon and get some specific prices on actual types of grain. To me $50 a sack is too spendy, $30-$35 is more like it.


I have found www.brewmasterswarehouse.com with a coupon code BNARMY to be about as cheap as you can get. I ordered two 11 gallon batches, over 60 pounds of grain, ground and shipped to me for $60. Tough to beat. Try out brew builder.

hard to beat cost. jeff typically is less or equal to midwest supplies, but you don't pay shiping.

Not sure how allan can afford to sell at cost, but he if that is what he wants to do see what cost is.

dkwandt wrote:

tyler just write your name on it and throw it in with mine! i have 50 lbs on order!

he got yeast in today!

by the way if you want special yeasts let Jeff (WWnH) know ASAP so he can order it on his next shipment.

glad to have another brewer in town! where did you come here from?

I lived in Bismarck for 25 years, then Buffalo, NY for 2 years, then Fargo,ND for 3 years and now I am back!

What does Jeff charge for a 50 pound sack, not to say anything detrimental to his business, but i was at vitners cellar the other day and he said he would give me the grains at cost so long as I would wait until he got another shipment in.

tyler just write your name on it and throw it in with mine! i have 50 lbs on order!

he got yeast in today!

by the way if you want special yeasts let Jeff (WWnH) know ASAP so he can order it on his next shipment.

glad to have another brewer in town! where did you come here from?

Tyler wrote:

That would be a good topic to talk about at the club meeting on Tuesday next week (April 19th). I'm sure Jeff (the owner) would be interested in putting in a bulk grain order. I know I'd be interested in getting a big bunch of Maris Otter (but I have no place to store it...and I don't have a mill).

7pm at Wheels Wings & Hobbies on Memorial Highway ("The Strip") in Mandan.

Yep, I would be in on some Marris Otter and some Golden Promise too.

I will have to come to a meeting for sure!

That would be a good topic to talk about at the club meeting on Tuesday next week (April 19th). I'm sure Jeff (the owner) would be interested in putting in a bulk grain order. I know I'd be interested in getting a big bunch of Maris Otter (but I have no place to store it...and I don't have a mill).

7pm at Wheels Wings & Hobbies on Memorial Highway ("The Strip") in Mandan.

Hi All, glad I found this site and clube. I just moved to Bismarck in January and I am an avid homebrewer. I have been brewing for about 3 years and have over 50 all grain batches under my belt. I look forward to brewing in Bismarck, from what I can see (and taste so far) the moderatly soft water should make a nice kolsch after I remove all the chlorine!

I am really interested in getting a group order together at some point to get some bulk grain.