"Big Red" Ale

Just an update, put the gas on this a few days ago. This beer is hardcore! With all the late hops/dry hops it is very cloudy in its early stages and the columbus is a little rough around the edges. I think I am going to try it again in a week after it has some time to settle down.

Just an update. I kegged this a week ago into two 5 gallon kegs. Each keg got 2.5 ounces of columbus in a mesh bag. Get this though.....the WLP007 brough the batch down to 1.009 OG. %8.5 ABV and the sample I pulled didn't taste fiery at all...very floral and smooth with a nice deep caramel/roasty finish.


I think after the dry hop this is going to be a great beer.......patience Corey, have patience....don't drink it yet

So we have Imperial Red IPA

I decided to sparge a little extra since the runnings where still strong enough, and I ended up with 1.072 OG and 13 gallons of wort. I am going to fill two 5 gallon kegs, each with 2.5 oz of whole leaf columbus dry hop in the keg, and the other 3 gallons is going to hit a secondary fermenter with some toasted oak chips and an ounce of centennial.

I have actually made a change to the yeast that I am going to use for this one. Since I have an 11 gallon batch of best bitter rolling along right now using WLP007 , I am just going to rack this beer right onto the yeast cake from the bitter. The results should be explosive! I am also considering adding 4 pounds of honey at flameout....kind of how bells hopslam is made...but red.

Mike Philleo wrote:

permo wrote:

The lacto can only take hold if you allow the mash to fall below 130 degrees for an extended period of time.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=30815

I mash in at about 11 pm, I am batch sparging and single infusion mashing, and for my overnight mash I converted a stainless steel heavily insulated coleman cooler to use as my mash tun for this. I mashed at 155 (what can I say WLP007 is a beast!) and by morning it was down to 148. I have found I get over %80 efficiency when I overnight mash. I cover the mash tun in blankets. When I wake up I turn on the burner for my first sparge (I double, or triple batch sparge), eat breakfast and wait for the sparge water to come to temp...then proceed as normal. It really cuts the brewing day down for me.

Someday when I complete my three tiered system and use a stainless steel vessel and heat source to hold mash temp I won't be able to do this anymore!

For the kolsh Randi is brewing.........try a triple decoction! Personally I like WLP029 as well, but that is personel preference over the Wyeast strain. I have used tradition, sazz, tettnanger..etc..etc..on my kolsch and my favorite is odd for the style...Willamette.

Thanks for the clarification on the overnight mash, I hadn't heard of that method before, except when there was a deliberate sour mashing. Very cool, though I can't do it due to my system.

In any case, I think Randi's already got the Wyeast Kolsch yeast for this one, as well as some Weyermann Kolsch malt. She's a huge fan of the noble hops, so I'm sure those will make their way in. Though, I have always believed that Willamette is a great all-around hop, especially when used in substitution of the noble varieties. In fact, our club wee heavy used all Willamette with good results.

The wyeast strain, from what I gather, can tolerate cold temps a little better. I just had WLP029 drop out when trying to hold at 59...I pushed it too cold. I had to warm up to 65 and rouse the yeast....so I think I will try 62 and overpitch even more next time to see how cold I can push it.

I always wanted to try the Kolsch malt. I use Jamil's recipe for kolsch, with a small percentage of munich, it is tasty that way.

permo wrote:

The lacto can only take hold if you allow the mash to fall below 130 degrees for an extended period of time.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=30815

I mash in at about 11 pm, I am batch sparging and single infusion mashing, and for my overnight mash I converted a stainless steel heavily insulated coleman cooler to use as my mash tun for this. I mashed at 155 (what can I say WLP007 is a beast!) and by morning it was down to 148. I have found I get over %80 efficiency when I overnight mash. I cover the mash tun in blankets. When I wake up I turn on the burner for my first sparge (I double, or triple batch sparge), eat breakfast and wait for the sparge water to come to temp...then proceed as normal. It really cuts the brewing day down for me.

Someday when I complete my three tiered system and use a stainless steel vessel and heat source to hold mash temp I won't be able to do this anymore!

For the kolsh Randi is brewing.........try a triple decoction! Personally I like WLP029 as well, but that is personel preference over the Wyeast strain. I have used tradition, sazz, tettnanger..etc..etc..on my kolsch and my favorite is odd for the style...Willamette.

Thanks for the clarification on the overnight mash, I hadn't heard of that method before, except when there was a deliberate sour mashing. Very cool, though I can't do it due to my system.

In any case, I think Randi's already got the Wyeast Kolsch yeast for this one, as well as some Weyermann Kolsch malt. She's a huge fan of the noble hops, so I'm sure those will make their way in. Though, I have always believed that Willamette is a great all-around hop, especially when used in substitution of the noble varieties. In fact, our club wee heavy used all Willamette with good results.

Mike Philleo wrote:

permo wrote:

Just this weekend I did an overnight mash on an ESB that I americanized with Pacific Northwest Hops, I used Mash Hopping in this one for the first time, in addition to first wort hopping. I am interested to see what these two methods together can bring. I think the extended overnight mash with 2oz of hops in the mash should yield some flavor.

I have used first wort hopping as my only bittering addition numerous times, and it is my prefered method for low IBU beers actually. Kolsch is a great example of a beer that works great with a first wort bittering addition.

the verdict is out and there isn't alot of actual data to support any of these methods, but as far as I can tell FWH is a great way to get a nice soft bittering and extended hop flavor .

After hearing your mention of Kolsch with the water profile around here, then hearing about FWH, that same idea crossed my mind. I think Randi is doing a Kolsch soon herself, and that might be worth looking into. Out of curiosity, maybe I misread or don't entirely understand your process, but in regard to overnight mashing your ESB, isn't there be the possibility of lactic acid production and a souring of the mash? Perhaps, that is that the intended result? If so, sounds interesting to me!

The lacto can only take hold if you allow the mash to fall below 130 degrees for an extended period of time.

http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=30815

I mash in at about 11 pm, I am batch sparging and single infusion mashing, and for my overnight mash I converted a stainless steel heavily insulated coleman cooler to use as my mash tun for this. I mashed at 155 (what can I say WLP007 is a beast!) and by morning it was down to 148. I have found I get over %80 efficiency when I overnight mash. I cover the mash tun in blankets. When I wake up I turn on the burner for my first sparge (I double, or triple batch sparge), eat breakfast and wait for the sparge water to come to temp...then proceed as normal. It really cuts the brewing day down for me.

Someday when I complete my three tiered system and use a stainless steel vessel and heat source to hold mash temp I won't be able to do this anymore!

For the kolsh Randi is brewing.........try a triple decoction! Personally I like WLP029 as well, but that is personel preference over the Wyeast strain. I have used tradition, sazz, tettnanger..etc..etc..on my kolsch and my favorite is odd for the style...Willamette.

permo wrote:

Just this weekend I did an overnight mash on an ESB that I americanized with Pacific Northwest Hops, I used Mash Hopping in this one for the first time, in addition to first wort hopping. I am interested to see what these two methods together can bring. I think the extended overnight mash with 2oz of hops in the mash should yield some flavor.

I have used first wort hopping as my only bittering addition numerous times, and it is my prefered method for low IBU beers actually. Kolsch is a great example of a beer that works great with a first wort bittering addition.

the verdict is out and there isn't alot of actual data to support any of these methods, but as far as I can tell FWH is a great way to get a nice soft bittering and extended hop flavor .

After hearing your mention of Kolsch with the water profile around here, then hearing about FWH, that same idea crossed my mind. I think Randi is doing a Kolsch soon herself, and that might be worth looking into. Out of curiosity, maybe I misread or don't entirely understand your process, but in regard to overnight mashing your ESB, isn't there be the possibility of lactic acid production and a souring of the mash? Perhaps, that is that the intended result? If so, sounds interesting to me!

Tyler wrote:

I've only done one FWH beer. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to compare it against. I only think I was getting an estimated 7-ish IBUs from the FWH. It was something like 0.25 oz of Centennials in a 1.040 bitter.

I'll be bringing the bitter to the meeting tomorrow, though, so we'll be able to try that guy out (side by side of itself with and without a couple ounces of dry-hops in five gallons).

The theory behind it is the thought that the oils are extracted and react with the wort in a different manner at a lower temp (160º F) than at boiling temps supposedly pulling out a different bittering quality and binding some of the hop oils to the wort instead of those oils being boiled off so the flavor that comes through is more intense than the flavor contributed from a bittering addition.

I've got a mild recipe in the works with only a FWH addition but I'm a bit hesitant to rely on just FWH for the only bittering in a beer with just that single hop addition. I'd rather not leave a batch of beer up to a technique qualified only by anecdotal evidence (though logic would tell me that it shouldn't make that much of a difference)...I suppose I'll have to just split the hopping between FWH and a 60 min addition.

But I've got a lot of other beer to brew before that, so that mild will be a ways off yet...

Just this weekend I did an overnight mash on an ESB that I americanized with Pacific Northwest Hops, I used Mash Hopping in this one for the first time, in addition to first wort hopping. I am interested to see what these two methods together can bring. I think the extended overnight mash with 2oz of hops in the mash should yield some flavor.

I have used first wort hopping as my only bittering addition numerous times, and it is my prefered method for low IBU beers actually. Kolsch is a great example of a beer that works great with a first wort bittering addition.

the verdict is out and there isn't alot of actual data to support any of these methods, but as far as I can tell FWH is a great way to get a nice soft bittering and extended hop flavor .

I've only done one FWH beer. Unfortunately, I don't have anything to compare it against. I only think I was getting an estimated 7-ish IBUs from the FWH. It was something like 0.25 oz of Centennials in a 1.040 bitter.

I'll be bringing the bitter to the meeting tomorrow, though, so we'll be able to try that guy out (side by side of itself with and without a couple ounces of dry-hops in five gallons).

The theory behind it is the thought that the oils are extracted and react with the wort in a different manner at a lower temp (160º F) than at boiling temps supposedly pulling out a different bittering quality and binding some of the hop oils to the wort instead of those oils being boiled off so the flavor that comes through is more intense than the flavor contributed from a bittering addition.

I've got a mild recipe in the works with only a FWH addition but I'm a bit hesitant to rely on just FWH for the only bittering in a beer with just that single hop addition. I'd rather not leave a batch of beer up to a technique qualified only by anecdotal evidence (though logic would tell me that it shouldn't make that much of a difference)...I suppose I'll have to just split the hopping between FWH and a 60 min addition.

But I've got a lot of other beer to brew before that, so that mild will be a ways off yet...

permo wrote:

Mike Philleo wrote:

Thanks for sharing! If there's anything I love more than a good Belgian, it's a nice, big American Red.

My favorite part about the the "big red" or Imperial Red Ale, or whatever you want to call it, is that as the hops fade over time, the dark crystal and roast malt profile becomes more evident and the beer takes on new life. With a normal pale colored IPA when the hops are gone, you are left with a rather bitter and uninteresting beer. I completely forgo the standard 60-90 minute bittering addition with this one, and instead go for first wort hopping, I find it gives a softer overall bittering and more flavor as well. There are plenty of IBU's to go around in this beer!

I have an awesome recipe for a big, hoppy brown ale as well. I will pull it off of beersmith tonight and post it.

I like that approach - I've been meaning to try FWH, but never got around to experimenting with it extensively. Definitely some food (or beer) for thought.

Mike Philleo wrote:

Thanks for sharing! If there's anything I love more than a good Belgian, it's a nice, big American Red.

My favorite part about the the "big red" or Imperial Red Ale, or whatever you want to call it, is that as the hops fade over time, the dark crystal and roast malt profile becomes more evident and the beer takes on new life. With a normal pale colored IPA when the hops are gone, you are left with a rather bitter and uninteresting beer. I completely forgo the standard 60-90 minute bittering addition with this one, and instead go for first wort hopping, I find it gives a softer overall bittering and more flavor as well. There are plenty of IBU's to go around in this beer!

I have an awesome recipe for a big, hoppy brown ale as well. I will pull it off of beersmith tonight and post it.

Thanks for sharing! If there's anything I love more than a good Belgian, it's a nice, big American Red.

Since I am new the boards I figured I would contribute a recipe, this is a good way to burn a pound of your favorite hops. For this example, I am using whole cone columbus hops.

"Big Red"

11 gallon batch

25 pounds two row
1.5 pounds CaraHell
1 pound C80
1 pound C120
4 oz chocolate malt

2 oz columbus (15.8%AA) First Wort Hop
1 oz columbus (15.8%AA) @30
2 oz columbus (15.8%AA) @ 15
2 oz columbus (15.8%AA) @ 10
2 oz columbus (15.8%AA) @ 5
2 oz columbus (15.8%AA) @ FlameOut
5 oz columbus (15.8%AA) Dry Hop

WLP001 1 gallon yeast starter
Mash at 151 (I mash overnight and get around %82 percent efficiency)
Double Batch Sparge
Ferment at 67-70 degrees

OG =1.070
FG = 1.014
IBU = 100+
SRM = 19